I'm sorry you feel that way, Zielakxar. I hope you manage to find a server that's right for you, and remember you're always welcome back if nothing better turns up ^^;
Cute rat avatar by the way.
Legacy Characters And Server
-
*zielakxar
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Place information about this state somewhere visible for all potentially new players to see (like server rules or something), and then I would not have any problems at all since either I wouldn't play here or accept it as a server flavour/rule. But since its obviously unfair and to get this information I had to get it from other player - well I think its ok to post my concerns.wrote:And my opinion, strictly as a player, is that it's elitism for newer players to come in and expect the established community to abandon long decided things to suit them.
Funny thing - its not just some single old maybe offended/angry at staff player that told me all of this. After I posted this topic multiple opinions from some players reached me mentioning this elitism thing about how a lot of old players feel as though they are entitled to getting what they want on the server.
Yeah - well thing is it doesn't matter how great server features are if something is rotten inside. I'm not yet sure if it is rotting since some players seem to actually share my concerns but prefer to stay anonymous. Probably because they achieved much more than I on the server and may be afraid to voice their opinions. It seems part of the community would prefer to see this problem fixed.wrote:Iv a feeling that if not having a legacy race for your power build needs is detering you from the rest of the features you said was attractive for the server, this is not the place for you.
Either do so or simply place info somewhere visible for new players and you wont hear any complains from me. Its not something I would expect, and yes it was shocking to me.
I do not have any problems that there is diffrence in power both in familiarity with mechanics and character status in a RP/plot way. Problem starts when the option to play by the same rules and achieve the same somewhere in a future is non existent.
-
*Mr_Otyugh
- Posts: 2242
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
It's not really a secret that there are legacy races, I mean there's loads of posts about it in the forums if people wanted to dig in. :P You can dig into suggestions and ideas forums if you want to read on the topics of wanting changes to them too. So... sorry to say, but there's no major conspiracy in regards of them, it just hasn't really been considered as a big deal to make an updated list of obsolete races when they can't even be picked.
If you think that's basis of server being rotten from the core, I guess we can't help you. You'll feel what you feel. And for the record, I play only humans, I have absolutely nothing to gain from this. But I get annoyed with things that are horribly misrepresented for the sake of arguing.
Also we do have a wiki, anyone can update it... so feel free to fill in the details if you believe them to be important.
If you think that's basis of server being rotten from the core, I guess we can't help you. You'll feel what you feel. And for the record, I play only humans, I have absolutely nothing to gain from this. But I get annoyed with things that are horribly misrepresented for the sake of arguing.
Also we do have a wiki, anyone can update it... so feel free to fill in the details if you believe them to be important.
-
*Trigonometry
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
On the topic of Legacy Races, let me tell you why you aren't missing out.
On most cases these legacy races had a level adjustment of above +5. Think of the Arcanoloth for an example, and just had really bloated stats. They let you make some weird class combinations, but their lower character level for the sake of dispelling, as well as lower max BAB, make in most cases the newer version on a racial PRC far outdo the former at least in specific niches.
For example, the Incubus used to have a level adjustment of +9. This means an Incubus could only have a max level of 21. That's a maximum of 21 BAB, and a maximum of caster level for the sake of being dispelled of your buffs of 21 (this means your buffs can be dispelled by a normal greater Dispel), your maximum caster level is 21 which means you need the greater penetration feats to even be able to penetrate SR, and finally, you'd only get one Epic Feat.
The Current Incubus has a level adjustment of +3, even if it has reduced ability scores and a racial PRC of 10 levels at 3/4 AB progression and some spell progression in Warlock, Sorcerer and I think Favored Soul. The Racial PRC is also completely optional to take, which means you could just pick Incubus and not take the Racial PRC, lose out on some of the stat bonuses you'd get, but get a BAB of 27 and making a purely physical build. Or, you can make a pure caster and you'd get a personal caster level of 25, but your character level would still be maxed at 27 for the sake of being dispelled. I don't need to tell you how much of an improvement this is. If you want to powerbuild, you're not going to use a legacy race, you're going to use the new one.
There are only a handful of races that I believe are still superior, like the old Djann, but overall, most old Races that have been changed have been improved. The only one that hasn't in my opinion is Half-Fiend/Celestial because of the ammount of levels the class demands, the prerequisite feats, the things it gives, and the Level Adjustment it put on you in comparison to other Races.
Also, as a disclaimer, my main is a Human.
On most cases these legacy races had a level adjustment of above +5. Think of the Arcanoloth for an example, and just had really bloated stats. They let you make some weird class combinations, but their lower character level for the sake of dispelling, as well as lower max BAB, make in most cases the newer version on a racial PRC far outdo the former at least in specific niches.
For example, the Incubus used to have a level adjustment of +9. This means an Incubus could only have a max level of 21. That's a maximum of 21 BAB, and a maximum of caster level for the sake of being dispelled of your buffs of 21 (this means your buffs can be dispelled by a normal greater Dispel), your maximum caster level is 21 which means you need the greater penetration feats to even be able to penetrate SR, and finally, you'd only get one Epic Feat.
The Current Incubus has a level adjustment of +3, even if it has reduced ability scores and a racial PRC of 10 levels at 3/4 AB progression and some spell progression in Warlock, Sorcerer and I think Favored Soul. The Racial PRC is also completely optional to take, which means you could just pick Incubus and not take the Racial PRC, lose out on some of the stat bonuses you'd get, but get a BAB of 27 and making a purely physical build. Or, you can make a pure caster and you'd get a personal caster level of 25, but your character level would still be maxed at 27 for the sake of being dispelled. I don't need to tell you how much of an improvement this is. If you want to powerbuild, you're not going to use a legacy race, you're going to use the new one.
There are only a handful of races that I believe are still superior, like the old Djann, but overall, most old Races that have been changed have been improved. The only one that hasn't in my opinion is Half-Fiend/Celestial because of the ammount of levels the class demands, the prerequisite feats, the things it gives, and the Level Adjustment it put on you in comparison to other Races.
Also, as a disclaimer, my main is a Human.
-
*zielakxar
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Well its quite obvious none or almost none of the inferior old races remain cause players will simply rebuild those which leaves only superior legacy chars. On none of the servers I played (one of which was existing for a really long time) I've experienced such situation. It's simply not acceptable to me as a new guy to play in server with policy that seems to focus and build stuff around old players mostly. But you are partially right - it seems to work for you since online compared to other servers looks decent and I can respect that. Good luck with developing your server I'm sure you'll find many new players that do not care about such issues same way as I do.
It only leaves to discussion why multiple players (some seem to be playing here much longer than I did) shared my opinion on this subject but for some reason do not want to post in this topic or address it as an issue openly.
Anyway I hope topic will be left here as an information to new guys coming to server so they can familiarize themselves with arguments from both sides and decide before they choose to invest their time playing here.
It only leaves to discussion why multiple players (some seem to be playing here much longer than I did) shared my opinion on this subject but for some reason do not want to post in this topic or address it as an issue openly.
Anyway I hope topic will be left here as an information to new guys coming to server so they can familiarize themselves with arguments from both sides and decide before they choose to invest their time playing here.
-
*Mr_Otyugh
- Posts: 2242
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Mmkay, good luck to you as well then, if that's your choice.
And the topic won't get deleted if that's what you're worried of. But it'll likely gradually fade away as new topics are written.
And the topic won't get deleted if that's what you're worried of. But it'll likely gradually fade away as new topics are written.
-
*edmaster44
- Posts: 797
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
zielakxar,Mar 26 2017 wrote:Well its quite obvious none or almost none of the inferior old races remain cause players will simply rebuild those which leaves only superior legacy chars. On none of the servers I played (one of which was existing for a really long time) I've experienced such situation. It's simply not acceptable to me as a new guy to play in server with policy that seems to focus and build stuff around old players mostly. But you are partially right - it seems to work for you since online compared to other servers looks decent and I can respect that. Good luck with developing your server I'm sure you'll find many new players that do not care about such issues same way as I do.
It only leaves to discussion why multiple players (some seem to be playing here much longer than I did) shared my opinion on this subject but for some reason do not want to post in this topic or address it as an issue openly.
Anyway I hope topic will be left here as an information to new guys coming to server so they can familiarize themselves with arguments from both sides and decide before they choose to invest their time playing here.
-
*Lucadia
- Posts: 450
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
The server focuses around old players? Yeah I guess thats why we are losing the legacy races. This is al a conspiracy that only the oldest and elistist can have superior power over your lower ecl race. Moar stats for better roll playing.
-player of a +0 ecl elf for three years and going.
-player of a +0 ecl elf for three years and going.