Sure Is Quiet!

[*CaCO3]

[*NeverOutPunned]

Part of the problem with perma-death risk events or story line is that the reward has, in my experience, never been worth the risk. Rewards are usually a sharply limited sum of gold or xp, the later of which isn't helpful for a lvl 30 not planning to rebuild and the former is never enough to justify risk taking as some manner of policy. Most of the time when you have any real control over the outcome of an event, ala, a group with people of similar mechanical power in a small group where the DM can pay attention, your fighting over personal plot points which have no real larger impact.

[*zethrenx99]

Risk doesn't need to be permadeath as he said. Can always look at risk in curses, persistent injuries, blocked chi, possession, domination, captivity, damnation, banishements, aroused ire of guilds of assassins or thieves or gypsies. . . I mean there are a plethora of negative side effects to failing some sort of plot, and whats more they give additional plot hooks to follow up on :D

[*Huelander]

The moment planescape is considered death takes on a very different meaning for different races.

I take it when you said it was meaningless moments before declaring it has a different meaning, you were simply making an exagerated jest. Because I wouldn't want to risk, for instance, this:http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Immolith

It's true that death is not regarded as something final by most Outsiders. However the Blood War alone already argues that death has its place in their lives as well. For why else try to kill oneanother?

Outsiders are made of soulstuff. We can imagine that if they die too often, they might lose bits and bobs of that soulstuff somewhere in the process of dying and returning. Potentially losing a little or alot of what they are, every time. Say that one got it particullarly bad and loses its memories, then what the creature used to be has effectively died, hasn't it? Because having no body/soul duality implies even their memories could be their flesh. An Outsider can die in ways different than a mortal. The ones that experiment most with the possiblities of that topic would be either the Lowerplanes(in context to the Blood War), ambitious Mages, or the Dustmen and Doomguard.

For many Outsiders, the very concept of 'doubt' may already be wounding. Especially to the alignment-based ones. Doubting one's own nature makes an Outsider's nature vulnerable to being changed, and this would also be kind of like dying a different kind of death. Or at least their equivilant of being maimed. Banishment/Imprisonment, demotion, suffering, amnesia. One does not speak about a loss of life, but a loss of oneself. Perhaps it implies things 'worse' than death. So Outsiders definately shouldn't be treating it lightly. It doesn't help that they live forever, either. Locking up a mind for ten thousand years could probably drive one mad, resulting in more loss of self. When a mortal is struck with a form of suffering, it is garuanteed to be at least as temporary as their lives (exceptions exist, of course). Not so much for Outsiders.

Unless they're from Elysium. Then dying is probably like taking another god damn vacation or some shit.

Either way, given the above. It should be no surprise then, that Outsiders tend to adopt emotions and assertions that are rather extreme to a mortal observer. A mortal having foul thoughts won't inexorably change what a mortal is. But for Outsiders, it just might. Their values and conditions of existing have an extreme and perhaps even fragile default by which they operate. This has every Outsider heavily guard themselves (and excel at guarding themselves) from such influences, it would be as natural to them as breathing is to a mortal.

Gods/Powers, the greatest of Outsiders, tend to be the most intense in this regard. With changes to their state of being having the capacity for causing lasting effects to the Multiverse in some fashion. Especially in places where they hold dominion (prime example: Mystra. . .Sigh).

[*Mick64]

Fey who require to be at odds with their court or in the case of shadow fey die under sun light.

I know a lot of players on SCOD say this, but I've never actually seen a source on this claim. From all I've been able to dig up on fey lore (There's not a lot), they die like any other creature.

[*Ariella]

I take it when you said it was meaningless moments before declaring it has a different meaning, you were simply making an exagerated jest. Because I wouldn't want to risk, for instance, this:http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Immolith

It's true that death is not regarded as something final by most Outsiders. However the Blood War alone already argues that death has its place in their lives as well. For why else try to kill oneanother?

As Outsiders are made of soulstuff/ So if we imagine that if they die too often, they might lose bits and bobs of that soulstuff somewhere in the process of dying and returning. Potentially losing a little or alot of what they are, every time. Say that one got it particullarly bad and loses its memories, then what the creature used to be has effectively died, hasn't it? Because having no body/soul duality implies even their memories could be their flesh. An Outsider can die in ways different than a mortal. The ones that experiment most with the possiblities of that topic would be either the Lowerplanes(in context to the Blood War), ambitious Mages, or the Dustmen and Doomguard.

For many Outsiders, the very concept of 'doubt' may already be wounding. Especially to the alignment-based ones. Doubting one's own nature makes an Outsider's nature vulnerable to being changed, and this would also be kind of like dying a different kind of death. Or at least their equivilant of being maimed. Banishment/Imprisonment, demotion, suffering, amnesia. One does not speak about a loss of life, but a loss of oneself. Perhaps it implies things 'worse' than death. So Outsiders definately shouldn't be treating it lightly. It doesn't help that they live forever, either. Locking up a mind for ten thousand years could probably drive one mad, resulting in more loss of self. When a mortal is struck with a form of suffering, it is garuanteed to be at least as temporary as their lives (exceptions exist, of course). Not so much for Outsiders.

Unless they're from Elysium. Then dying is probably like taking another god damn vacation or some shit.

Either way, given the above. It should be no surprise then, that Outsiders tend to adopt emotions and assertions that are rather extreme to a mortal observer. A mortal having foul thoughts won't inexorably change what a mortal is. But for Outsiders, it just might. Their values and conditions of existing have an extreme and perhaps even fragile default by which they operate. This has every Outsider heavily guard themselves (and excel at guarding themselves) from such influences, it would be as natural to them as breathing is to a mortal.

Gods/Powers, the greatest of Outsiders, tend to be the most intense in this regard. With changes to their state of being having the capacity for causing lasting effects to the Multiverse in some fashion. Especially in places where they hold dominion (prime example: Mystra. . .Sigh).

It was an over exaggeration of the point yes, Ultimately it still remains an inconvenience no matter how immortal you are. My point was mainly that they would not act with the same level of fear and deterrence a mortal would. While i like some of your theories i do feel i have to point out that forgotten realms uses a different approach to fiends then planescape, In several points. Also keep in mind the blood war does indeed take place in the abyss and hell, Which means respective outsiders can and will die for good but also that it is endless. Which to me speaks of the circular nature of the outsiders.

I know a lot of players on SCOD say this, but I've never actually seen a source on this claim. From all I've been able to dig up on fey lore (There's not a lot), they die like any other creature.

That's because it ultimately depends on the prime, The best sources for fey material is dragon magazine, Candlekeep forum and wizards of the coast website. unfortunately fey didn't really get defined until 4e so you have to dig to find real facts. I don't remember all of the sources i had before the start of my fey plot at the end of 2015, however one that stands out is "Guide to the shadow fey". While nothing to do with planescape it has some pretty solid 2e lore that compares shadow and normal fey.

From a setting standpoint even outsiders and the like don't want to get banished/whatever because they would lose all the equipment they were carrying. Imagine how much less cocksure your PC would be if all those purples were going to be lost if you got kicked back to fae land/hell/abyss/etc.

While losing my gear would suck OOC, You do have to look at it from an IC perspective. Using Trissa as my example i have spent three years collecting up a large amount of stock, Countless hours of grinding and merchanting. Now three years on a character is a pretty big chunk of my life as far as i am concerned, But if i couldn't die from old age would three years matter?. Would this be something to rage at or fear? or would it simply be a minor hitch by comparison?. Ultimately the value of time is shifted when it becomes infinite, Which makes some tasks trivial.

define ''meaningless'' better in this istance please?

If you die on a prime typically but not always you are banished for x amount of time, death on a plane that is not your own does not come with the same limit.

EDIT: Alright so i should apologies as i have broken the rules a bit here and derailed this topic, But i am going to have to ask everyone to not follow my example and stick to the OPs topic. That said i love a debate about lore and theory especially in the case of planescape, which really is a mash of lore. So if you guys like we can pick this up on another topic or continue in PM.

[*Tsidkenu]

Should I return then? :lol:

[*Mausman]

Should I return then? :lol:

Do you wish to return? ;) if so, do et!

[*Tsidkenu]

Retired my BG main, although my general playstyle has decreased to casual (rather than religious, as before).

Also kinda hard to RP with folks in my timezone slot cuz Sigil usually sits at 5-7 folks when I play so quite often I prefer to whirr up Hearthstone and get my ass handed to me with cards for a few hrs.

[*edmaster44]

This college assignments is eating my time yo, as well as an Internship that i have stacked on top of that, I'll be back Semi-Religiously when it's over.